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Perhaps it's very appropriate to have, as a guest speaker, another fellow researcher,

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a person who did not fly a, or I should say did not board a flying saucer for a ride,

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not saying that that isn't possible.

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He didn't meet a long-haired Venusian that may also be possible.

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However, the man did serious investigations on the flying saucer subject.

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He did it for three years.

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He was affiliated with the International Flying Saucer Bureau of Bridgeport, Connecticut.

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His communication with a number of groups and individuals all over the world.

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He publishes the saucer, the saucerian review, which comes out in an annual, I believe now.

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These are also available in our lobby.

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He's a businessman, well-respected in his community.

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He's a schoolteacher.

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He's a motion picture booking agent, the only one in West Virginia, I understand.

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Mr. Barker came into flying saucer research more or less as a skeptic.

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He wanted to be convinced.

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That's why he did research on it.

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He wanted to be convinced either one way or another, either the real or the not.

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I think he had a notion that perhaps they were Russian or perhaps owing some origin to some part of this world, that they were not extraterrestrial.

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I'm not going to stand here to say what his views are on it now.

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You tell yourself. But I think that's enough.

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I'd like to introduce to you Mr. Gray Barker, Clarksburg, West Virginia, author of the new too much about flying saucers.

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Thank you, Don.

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Delegates and members of the Federation.

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I hope you can hear me all right because I don't know what's taller than the rest of you and the mic is down there.

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If you can't, someone yell and we'll try to turn up the volume.

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I think one thing is very evident in the beginning that I am not one of the little man, which you may have heard about.

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Not that they don't exist.

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I think that's possible.

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In fact, Don tells me that if any of you are really interested, he has some in the back room, which you may see for 50 cents additional, a slight additional charge.

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But oh, yes, neither am I one of the men in the black suits.

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I intended to bring along my light one, which I was going to wear, but in leaving West Virginia in such a hurry to get up here, I just plain forgot it.

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But being about six feet four puts me into an advantage that some of you may not have because I'm up here a little closer where all of those things are flying about.

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Yet it's rather strange that I have never personally seen one.

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A fellow called me up two months ago.

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I was doing some some television interviews at the time.

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And one of the first things he asked me, I suppose he was trying to line up some sort of interview was Mr.

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Barker. Have you ever seen a flying saucer and wanting to be completely honest about it?

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I said, no, I have not.

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And I heard a little gasp at the other end.

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Here was a man who thought, perhaps that I having being so greatly interested in my subject of flying saucers, why I hadn't seen one.

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But I had to explain to him that even though that I haven't seen one, as many of you have done,

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there is no reason why I should discount the stories of others, especially the many scientific reports or what we would consider the most reliable.

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Those by reliable observers such as airline pilots who are trained to know what they're seeing in the sky.

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I think that maybe I haven't seen any.

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But certainly I should listen to other people.

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And no matter how fantastic the story might sound to me at the beginning, there is no reason for me to discount it.

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Yet I would have to say that I think that some of the flying saucer stories are the bunk.

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Now, before you start throwing Martian brickbats or Venusian vegetables or whatever they have up there at me,

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let me explain myself.

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I said I think most saucers are the bunk and that certainly leaves me a lot of leeway.

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I think that we saucer fans, as some of us call ourselves, are as greatly as fault as those who won't even admit to the possibility of saucers.

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A lot of us interpret a lot of things that we see as flying saucers that perhaps may not be.

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So I think that perhaps half of the saucers are now reported are and out through the air for us quite a large bone.

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Misinterpretations of natural objects such as balloons, aircraft, celestial bodies and all the other explanations.

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I think that some of them could be explained as temperature inversions.

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Dr. Menzel's sun dogs and all those other natural phenomena that we know a little about and subsequently may misinterpret.

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But I certainly do not discount all of the sightings.

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And I think that out of those remaining reports, we have something very real to go on.

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And that's on what I have tried to base what I have done.

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Now, let me reiterate that I am not here trying to attempt to minimize the case for flying saucers or to attempt to explain them away.

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If I were, I certainly wouldn't have taken the trouble to write a book about the subject nor taken time off to come up here from Clarksburg, West Virginia, where I live.

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It's quite a drive. And I'm sure that a few people did not believe that there are such things as flying saucers.

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You wouldn't have taken the trouble and you're a good time to come out here and listen to me tonight.

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I think that at one time, perhaps in 1952, I was a great deal more skeptical, as Don, I believe, pointed out than I am today.

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I find it rather hard remembering just what my attitude is because things change.

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I think I was like the average person on the street who maybe just doesn't want to think about flying saucers or something so strange, so unreal.

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It upsets his everyday scheme of thing that he doesn't want to think about it.

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After all, it is a pretty hard job to think for some people.

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Well, in 1952, I suppose I was like that.

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I wasn't at least actively interested in flying saucers.

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I saw the reports. I saw her.

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This Captain Mantle was shot down by temperature inversion.

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I read about that, but I don't suppose I thought too much about it.

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And I read where the temperature inversions took off from the ground, leaving large burn places on the ground.

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But anyway, my skepticism was somewhat changed in September of 1952.

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And I want to go into that a little before I get into the main part of the book.

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They knew too much about flying saucers.

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This was a very usual day when a very unusual thing happened.

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That was in early September, 1952, in a very unusual year, 1952.

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As you remember, a lot of strange things were happening.

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And that's when we had some many reports from all over the country and there were a number of very strange sightings reported involving

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things which were seen inside what people termed spaceships.

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But anyway, let's picture yourself living at that time.

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Maybe it's a housewife, if possible, as a young boy or girl, anywhere from nine years old to 17,

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because this is in the people, which is involved.

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And let's imagine that your your kids and you're playing baseball at a playground about death.

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This is Shadows are beginning to creep over everything and it gets at that spooky time of evening when you're about ready to quit playing,

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but you would like to play a while longer.

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But suddenly you see something shoot over across the sky.

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It probably is a shooting star because that's what it looked like to you.

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But the peculiar thing about this, and of course this actually happened, was that it seems to land on a nearby hilltop.

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Well, a lot of shooting stars seem to come down.

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Really meteorites go on over, but sometimes they seem to come down on the hill, but really they're going over.

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And you think, perhaps this is what has happened.

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However, you look up on the hill and you see a kind of light there.

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Whatever it has been is there.

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It did land or come to the earth.

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And the strange thing about this light is that it's strangely pulsing, getting dim to bright, dim to bright.

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I don't know if these people were greatly frightened or not.

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I think that it was just a normal curiosity.

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Now, these people in Flatwoods, West Virginia, in 1952, that's what I'm talking about,

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were people who hadn't heard about flying saucers.

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They were country people with fewer advantages than most of us have who live in the city.

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Their outlooks are not as broad.

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They haven't heard and seen as many things.

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They hadn't had television yet to educate them on a lot of things.

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They certainly hadn't read science fiction.

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So maybe that is why they weren't greatly frightened.

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So they went up on top of the hill to look at this thing.

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And as soon as they got there, they were so frightened, almost out of their wits,

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that they immediately got out of there as fast as they could.

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And I think the best way to report something about this is to read you the United Press

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story on the thing, which I have here, put it in my book.

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I remember reading this at breakfast one morning.

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I live in Clarksburg, which is about 75 miles from this town of Flatwoods, where the famous

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Flatwoods monster landed.

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And I was reading this story.

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Police say Braxton Monster product of mass hysteria.

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Sutton, September 14.

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Seven Braxton County residents vowed today that a Frankenstein monster with B.O.

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drove them from a hilltop near here.

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But police figured the smelly boogeyman was a product in mass hysteria.

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That sounds like a typical newspaper story, doesn't it?

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The thing described as witnesses as half man, half dragon, had not been reported seen since

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Friday night.

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But residents of the area said a foul odor still clung to the hilltop yesterday.

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All of this started when Mrs. Kathleen May of Flatwoods said she and six boys, one of

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17-year-old national guardsmen, climbed the hill to investigate her two small sons' report

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that a flying saucer landed there.

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That's incorrect, as a lot of newspaper stories is, because they hadn't heard of flying saucers

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beforehand.

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But she said that they found a fire-breathing monster 10 feet tall with a bright green body

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and a blood-red face that waddled toward them, quote, with a bouncing, floating motion and

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sent them scurrying down the hillside.

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She said the monster exuded an overpowering odor, like metal, she called it, that so sickened

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them they vomited for hours afterward.

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It looked worse than Frankenstein, said Mrs. May.

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It couldn't have been human.

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Well, naturally, I was pretty skeptical after I read this story, but here was something

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that happened near where I had grown up in the country on a farm, and it was quite convenient

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to go and see about.

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So I decided to go there and find out just what gave her this.

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There was a story that was obviously made up.

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It couldn't have happened, I thought, and perhaps such a thing should be exposed and

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made known for what it was.

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So I departed for Flatwood as soon as I could get away from the office, which was a couple

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of days, and arrived in Flatwood's rather late at night, where I stopped at a friend's

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house who knew the people.

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And this friend of mine was very skeptical.

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He said that he didn't believe a word of it.

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But the next morning I went to one of the local newspapers, the Braxton Central, and

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talked to Mr. Holt Bern, who was also the mayor of the town.

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Earlier he had released a news story that this thing had been a meteor which had crashed,

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and the gases from it was what the people had seen and thought was a monster.

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But when I arrived he wasn't so sure about it.

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He had been talking to Ivan Sanderson, whom some of you may know, who had come there also

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to investigate the story.

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And the mayor suggested seriously that I drive up to Flatwood's and talk to a nunly boy,

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one of the boys who was 14 years old who had gone to the hilltop to see the thing.

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He said that Mrs. May, the only adult who was alone, had gone to New York.

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As soon as this had happened they had got her and some of the other witnesses on the

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We The People television broadcast.

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So I couldn't see them that day.

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So I went out to Flatwood's, which is a very short drive, and located the nunly boy, whose

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father, incidentally, had seen the thing go over.

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And I was very much surprised when this kid sat down and started telling me the story,

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because he sounded as if he were telling the truth.

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He said that as soon as they saw the object go overhead, he and the other children in

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the playground decided to go up and see what it was, and they ran up to a railroad which

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would take them to the location and stopped at Mrs. May's house.

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She was the housewife who was alone.

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At first she didn't want to go with them.

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She said, that's just a story you're telling me that couldn't be.

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She looked out the door and there she could see on top of the hill this strange light

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pulsing, getting dim and bright, as the others described it.

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So she went along with them.

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Now there were seven people in the party, and I'll read you the names.

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Mrs. May, the only adult, Jean Lemon, 17, Neville Nunley, 14, Tommy Hire, 10, Ronnie

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Shaver, 10, and Mrs. May's two children, Eddie, 13 years old, and Fred, 12 years old.

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Well they started up the hill.

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It's quite a walk up there, as some of you who have been there and investigated, I'm

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sure some of you have.

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I know my two friends here from Ohio have.

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When they arrived near the top of the hill, they said they could first smell a funny odor.

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However, that didn't discourage them from going on.

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Personally, I think I would have been getting out of there because I would much rather be

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a life coward than a dead hero.

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But anyway, these people just went on.

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And at the very top of the hill, say, came over, they came upon everything at the same

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time.

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And this is what I got out of them that they saw.

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I'm not reporting everything I heard.

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I'm reporting only those things that they all saw and were sure of.

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Down over the side of the hill, they said they saw a huge glowing object, which was,

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according to some of them, the size of a house.

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Others weren't able to estimate the size.

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Others hadn't got a very good look.

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But it was established that it was a glowing, glow-black thing.

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And evidently they were looking at that.

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Now all of this happened in a very few seconds.

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I don't know how many, but I'm sure very few.

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And while they were looking at the globe, I understand the lemon boy.

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He thought he saw some eyes in the tree.

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He thought it was an animal's eyes of some kind.

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And he showed his flashlight on it.

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And all of a sudden, it seemed to light up.

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And there was a huge creature, they said, about 10 to 15 feet tall.

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And a very strange-looking object indeed.

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As well as that could establish, they didn't get a good look at its feet, if it had feet,

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or the lower part of its body.

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They only saw and were concentrating upon the head.

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But perhaps that was what was illuminated.

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But they said that it had a round face, which was blood red.

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And they said that out of its eyes were coming beams of light.

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Now Mrs. May, who perhaps was the most excitable of them, was sure that these beams of light

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was coming right at her.

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And they were shining on her.

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00:19:01,920 --> 00:19:09,280
But the children who seemed to be more objective about it said that they were coming out over

219
00:19:09,280 --> 00:19:14,400
their heads, that they were parallel to the base of whatever this thing was.

220
00:19:14,400 --> 00:19:17,120
These were greenish-orange rays of light.

221
00:19:17,120 --> 00:19:24,400
But the apex of its head was a kind of hood-like affair, which was black.

222
00:19:24,400 --> 00:19:30,240
One boy told me that it looked like a desk cap, as we would imagine a child sitting in

223
00:19:30,240 --> 00:19:36,520
school in olden times with this conical hat on his head.

224
00:19:36,520 --> 00:19:42,840
But anyway, they didn't stay around long enough to investigate, which I don't blame them for

225
00:19:42,840 --> 00:19:43,840
doing.

226
00:19:43,840 --> 00:19:49,680
And incidentally, all the time they were smelling this very peculiar odor, which they couldn't

227
00:19:49,680 --> 00:19:50,680
describe.

228
00:19:50,680 --> 00:19:55,120
Some said, well, it smelled like rotten eggs at first, and you would question them.

229
00:19:55,120 --> 00:19:57,440
They said it smelled like burning metal.

230
00:19:57,440 --> 00:20:03,000
But it ended up that none of them knew exactly what this odor was like.

231
00:20:03,000 --> 00:20:06,760
It was something that they hadn't encountered before.

232
00:20:06,760 --> 00:20:11,800
So immediately they ran off the hill as fast as they could.

233
00:20:12,680 --> 00:20:15,840
I understand that several of them were ill.

234
00:20:15,840 --> 00:20:18,400
They were vomiting.

235
00:20:18,400 --> 00:20:22,200
So happened that a funeral director came by with his ambulance about that time, and he

236
00:20:22,200 --> 00:20:27,440
gave some of them first aid, whatever that would involve, maybe smelling salts or something.

237
00:20:27,440 --> 00:20:28,440
I don't know.

238
00:20:28,440 --> 00:20:29,440
He never would talk about it.

239
00:20:29,440 --> 00:20:36,360
But anyway, they were in a bunch of pretty scared people after seeing all this.

240
00:20:36,360 --> 00:20:40,400
They called the sheriff of the county, whom I've also interviewed about.

241
00:20:40,400 --> 00:20:46,240
But he at the time was in another part of the county investigating another similar report

242
00:20:46,240 --> 00:20:49,320
of an object crashing on a hillside.

243
00:20:49,320 --> 00:20:53,000
However, nothing was ever found out about that.

244
00:20:53,000 --> 00:20:59,480
It seemed as if, on this particular evening, objects were seen going over in the skies

245
00:20:59,480 --> 00:21:01,520
over several states.

246
00:21:01,520 --> 00:21:07,600
Ivan Sanderson said he thought he could trace one object over Huntington, Charleston, some

247
00:21:07,600 --> 00:21:10,600
of the other cities into flat woods.

248
00:21:10,600 --> 00:21:17,800
But at any rate, whatever this was was connected with the aerial phenomena, which was rather

249
00:21:17,800 --> 00:21:19,920
widespread at that time.

250
00:21:19,920 --> 00:21:26,240
The first witness is on the scene, and this is where this story does get stranger, where

251
00:21:26,240 --> 00:21:31,520
a couple of boys, about 18 or 20, who went up on the hill, I think, about a half hour

252
00:21:31,520 --> 00:21:35,040
after that, and they found nothing at all there.

253
00:21:35,040 --> 00:21:36,040
Of course, it was dark.

254
00:21:36,040 --> 00:21:39,440
They couldn't see anything, but certainly there wasn't any monster.

255
00:21:39,440 --> 00:21:44,360
About a half hour or an hour later, the sheriff arrived after coming from Frametown investigating

256
00:21:44,360 --> 00:21:45,960
the other report.

257
00:21:45,960 --> 00:21:52,240
He didn't find anything either, and no odor either, immediately after this occurrence.

258
00:21:52,240 --> 00:21:59,240
So whatever it was, if it were real, and was there, it must have gone away very, very quickly.

259
00:21:59,240 --> 00:22:04,920
The next morning, a newspaper editor who edited the Braxton Democrat the other little week

260
00:22:05,120 --> 00:22:10,800
newspapers, he's come out every week and not the dailies as we're accustomed to, went up

261
00:22:10,800 --> 00:22:14,920
on the hill very early in the morning to investigate.

262
00:22:14,920 --> 00:22:20,800
He could see nothing either, but something did strike him after looking around.

263
00:22:20,800 --> 00:22:27,400
In the grass where the monster is reported to have been, he saw what he thought were

264
00:22:27,400 --> 00:22:35,400
skid marks in the grass, as if someone had been on skis and had slid down the hill on

265
00:22:35,400 --> 00:22:36,400
them.

266
00:22:36,400 --> 00:22:40,520
Whatever it was, it'd been light and white because it hadn't indebted itself into the

267
00:22:40,520 --> 00:22:47,520
soil, but it seemed to be going down toward the area where the globular shape was seen,

268
00:22:47,960 --> 00:22:53,440
and where it was seen, there was a large area of grass mashed down.

269
00:22:53,480 --> 00:22:59,400
So it was established that whatever had been there had left some trace of itself.

270
00:22:59,400 --> 00:23:02,960
He couldn't smell anything and was puzzled over the account of the odor.

271
00:23:02,960 --> 00:23:08,600
He thought it still should be around, but he bent to the ground and snuffed there.

272
00:23:08,600 --> 00:23:16,100
He said that he knew that gas, when it went away, it sort of settled to the ground and

273
00:23:16,100 --> 00:23:21,080
you could detect it there long after it had gone, and he said that sure enough he could

274
00:23:21,160 --> 00:23:28,160
detect this rather nauseous and almost suffocating odor near the ground.

275
00:23:29,160 --> 00:23:39,160
So that about leaves the thing where it was, a very puzzling account, but one which I came

276
00:23:39,840 --> 00:23:44,800
away from, very much convinced had happened.

277
00:23:44,800 --> 00:23:49,800
I wasn't sure it had been exactly as the kids had reported it.

278
00:23:49,800 --> 00:23:56,800
After all, they probably were and very surely were scared, but something had been there.

279
00:23:57,120 --> 00:23:59,840
I was convinced that these people were telling the truth.

280
00:23:59,840 --> 00:24:06,120
I think that after you would talk to a number of people and try to catch them up as I surely

281
00:24:06,120 --> 00:24:13,120
was doing and be unable to tear down their stories, that you also would know that there

282
00:24:14,800 --> 00:24:19,800
was someone handing you a line or telling you some truth.

283
00:24:19,800 --> 00:24:24,080
Anyway, that was the story that went with the monsters.

284
00:24:24,080 --> 00:24:28,400
So I drove back to Clarksburg pondering this.

285
00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:35,400
I said if I can admit that that was real and that it did happen, some of these other stories

286
00:24:37,120 --> 00:24:40,880
may be true also and may bear looking into.

287
00:24:40,880 --> 00:24:47,160
I suppose I had caught the bug, as it's been called, and right there I became intensely

288
00:24:47,160 --> 00:24:50,160
interested in finding out what the saucers were.

289
00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:56,240
I thought that if I gave four or five weeks to it, I could solve the complete mystery and

290
00:24:56,240 --> 00:24:58,040
get rid of it.

291
00:24:58,040 --> 00:25:03,000
Some people do when they get into this thing, but of course I'm still at it and perhaps

292
00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:06,160
maybe farther from the truth than I was when I started.

293
00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:13,840
But anyway, I was thinking at that time, having heard so many other reports, that if someone

294
00:25:13,840 --> 00:25:21,340
could form a club or organization to gather all of this information together and analyze

295
00:25:21,340 --> 00:25:25,920
it, that some definite conclusions might be reached.

296
00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:31,600
Well, just after that I heard about it just such a man who had done that.

297
00:25:31,720 --> 00:25:37,680
The very first who organized a flying saucer organization.

298
00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:44,200
That man was Albert K. Bender, the fellow over whom there has been so much controversy

299
00:25:44,200 --> 00:25:45,760
of light.

300
00:25:45,760 --> 00:25:50,240
He had a club which he called the International Flying Saucer Bureau.

301
00:25:50,240 --> 00:25:56,560
Well, I thought that surely was just a high sounding name, but when I found out about it,

302
00:25:56,560 --> 00:26:03,000
I found surely enough the fellow had a chapter in England and members in Australia and even

303
00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:04,480
South Africa, I believe.

304
00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:07,080
In fact, the fellow was all over the world.

305
00:26:07,080 --> 00:26:10,200
So here was something I wanted to find out about.

306
00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:17,200
So I got in touch with Bender and he was immediately enthusiastic about my joining the organization.

307
00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:23,520
I was appointed the state representative for West Virginia and my job was to collect money

308
00:26:23,520 --> 00:26:31,480
from memberships and send in all the accounts from my state, which I began by sending in

309
00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:34,760
the report on the Flatwoods Monster.

310
00:26:34,760 --> 00:26:42,560
Eventually we got into the thing a little further and we decided that if we had a special

311
00:26:42,560 --> 00:26:51,080
bureau within a larger one or a department which could very carefully investigate certain

312
00:26:51,080 --> 00:26:59,240
selected reports, that we might decide whether some of these better reports were the truth

313
00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:01,840
or whatever they might be.

314
00:27:01,840 --> 00:27:05,640
So a department of investigation was set up.

315
00:27:05,640 --> 00:27:12,640
I was given a rather high sounding title of chief investigator and of course I was very

316
00:27:12,640 --> 00:27:16,920
proud of my membership cards, but really we were very serious about it.

317
00:27:16,920 --> 00:27:24,080
And others appointed were Mr. August C. Roberts, who was a person who was an expert in photography.

318
00:27:24,080 --> 00:27:27,040
A lot of flying saucer photos were cropping up.

319
00:27:27,040 --> 00:27:31,600
We wanted to find out if they were real or maybe tricked up.

320
00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:38,120
Mr. Dominic C. Lucezi was in the thing in charge of aeronautics.

321
00:27:38,120 --> 00:27:40,640
He knew something about that.

322
00:27:40,640 --> 00:27:42,400
A Reverend S.L.

323
00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:50,080
of Washington, D.C. and a Mr. Lonzo Dove of Broadway, Virginia, an amateur astronomer.

324
00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:56,360
Here were people which I had working with me, which were pretty good in these certain

325
00:27:56,360 --> 00:27:59,360
fields that they knew something about.

326
00:27:59,360 --> 00:28:04,640
So we ran several reports through the special department.

327
00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:11,200
In fact, a couple of photographs which we decided weren't flying saucers at all but

328
00:28:11,200 --> 00:28:16,560
just reflections off the sun at that time.

329
00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:23,880
But anyway, we all became very close friends, all of us in this little department within

330
00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:31,560
the bureau, and especially Bender and I became very friendly, mainly through the mail.

331
00:28:31,560 --> 00:28:36,360
And I got to know a lot about these other people who were working with me.

332
00:28:36,360 --> 00:28:44,440
That was why it was so surprising when I received a tape recording one day, which rather set

333
00:28:44,440 --> 00:28:46,280
me back again.

334
00:28:46,280 --> 00:28:50,200
It was a quite mystifying thing.

335
00:28:50,200 --> 00:28:55,720
This was a tape recording from Dominic C. Lucezi, the aeronautical consultant for the

336
00:28:55,720 --> 00:28:58,360
Department of Investigation.

337
00:28:58,360 --> 00:29:03,040
And I would like to read out of the book here just a few of the words that he had on the

338
00:29:03,040 --> 00:29:07,280
recording, the more or less whole thing is in the book.

339
00:29:07,280 --> 00:29:14,400
He says, but actually, Gray, some very interesting things have happened.

340
00:29:14,400 --> 00:29:19,800
And the only way I can describe these two to you is by using tape.

341
00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:24,200
He's talking about interesting things in the International Flying Saucer Bureau.

342
00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:28,800
So when I heard this, I rather sat up here with something a little different, I thought.

343
00:29:28,800 --> 00:29:30,360
Then Dom continues.

344
00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:37,080
As far as my being investigated by someone is concerned, no one that I know of has interrogated

345
00:29:37,080 --> 00:29:43,480
Augie Roberts or myself, unless it might have been someone with whom we are well acquainted

346
00:29:43,480 --> 00:29:49,240
and whom we might not have realized was an investigator of one type or another.

347
00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:53,600
Well in the course of their conversation, they were talking to him by telephone.

348
00:29:53,600 --> 00:29:56,920
They were planning to go to Bridgeport to see him.

349
00:29:56,920 --> 00:30:02,400
And the car developed trouble, so Augie Roberts called Bender and asked him if there was anything

350
00:30:02,400 --> 00:30:06,080
new in the Flying Saucers.

351
00:30:06,080 --> 00:30:09,920
And I'll return to Dom and X tape again.

352
00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:15,120
This is all very hard to describe about Al, that is, for actually the telephone conversation

353
00:30:15,120 --> 00:30:20,160
was not between Al and myself, but between him and Augie.

354
00:30:20,160 --> 00:30:23,720
Actually the phone call lasted for about 20 or 25 minutes.

355
00:30:23,720 --> 00:30:29,120
To make a long story short, Gray, I can't give it to you word for word, but what had

356
00:30:29,120 --> 00:30:33,240
happened was something like this.

357
00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:40,400
Al Bender told Augie that space review, that was a little publication which they got out,

358
00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:45,720
that space review would come out in October, but whether it would come out after that was

359
00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:47,520
something else.

360
00:30:47,520 --> 00:30:53,960
It seemed something strange has occurred in IFSB, that was the initials of the International

361
00:30:53,960 --> 00:30:56,080
Flying Saucer Bureau.

362
00:30:56,080 --> 00:31:01,240
While Augie was quite persistent and kept pushing Al for more information, finally Al

363
00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:07,080
said bluntly, I know the secret of the disks.

364
00:31:07,080 --> 00:31:15,200
He added that three men had visited him, and in effect shut him up completely as far as

365
00:31:15,200 --> 00:31:19,360
saucer investigation is concerned.

366
00:31:19,360 --> 00:31:28,240
The way Dominic gathered it, Al had run across something in the course of his investigations,

367
00:31:28,240 --> 00:31:31,480
and this sort of rang a bell in his mind.

368
00:31:31,480 --> 00:31:32,480
He thought he had it.

369
00:31:32,480 --> 00:31:37,920
He thought he had the answer to the Flying Saucer riddle.

370
00:31:37,920 --> 00:31:44,080
He told us later that he had names and places, whatever that could mean, to back it up.

371
00:31:44,560 --> 00:31:46,000
Dougie made one mistake.

372
00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:51,480
He took this theory or whatever it was and submitted it to someone, he said.

373
00:31:51,480 --> 00:31:53,760
He wouldn't tell us whom.

374
00:31:53,760 --> 00:31:59,120
Perhaps a magazine, I thought, maybe the government, maybe to a friend.

375
00:31:59,120 --> 00:32:05,120
But anyway, when the three men came to see him, he said that they had that very same

376
00:32:05,120 --> 00:32:08,160
piece of paper in their hands.

377
00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:15,000
Tell us, as we could figure it out, from what we could get out of Bender, who seemed to

378
00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:21,080
be terrified by this thing, he said that after the three men were there he was ill and he

379
00:32:21,080 --> 00:32:26,960
couldn't eat for three days, and he was sure he had turned white when he talked to them.

380
00:32:26,960 --> 00:32:32,160
And I began to think, well, what could scare a fellow like that?

381
00:32:32,160 --> 00:32:38,440
There was a grown man, if three men would walk in to see me, certainly I would be nervous,

382
00:32:38,440 --> 00:32:43,200
but I didn't see what they could tell me which would make me so frightened.

383
00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:50,640
So we were determined to find out more about this.

384
00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:56,080
After all, Bender hadn't said who the three men in black really were.

385
00:32:56,080 --> 00:33:04,200
At that time it sounded like the government to us, because we imagined that perhaps the

386
00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:09,080
government was interested in keeping all of this a secret from the people.

387
00:33:09,080 --> 00:33:14,280
Perhaps they were afraid that if the people got to know too much about the flying saucers,

388
00:33:14,280 --> 00:33:15,920
they would be frightened.

389
00:33:15,920 --> 00:33:22,480
It would be something that happened similar to the Orson Welles broadcast, which you've

390
00:33:22,480 --> 00:33:24,160
heard about.

391
00:33:24,160 --> 00:33:29,120
But anyway, we were more confused as ever.

392
00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:34,280
And I had a very strange reaction after hearing this.

393
00:33:34,280 --> 00:33:41,960
Here was an investigator, something like myself, who had his home entered, who was visited

394
00:33:41,960 --> 00:33:48,960
by three people who didn't treat him very kindly, evidently, and who was just badly

395
00:33:48,960 --> 00:33:49,960
shaken.

396
00:33:50,440 --> 00:33:56,400
It didn't seem he was permitted to go ahead and talk further about flying saucers.

397
00:33:56,400 --> 00:34:02,200
In fact, I was a little scared myself if someone could shut up Mr. Bender.

398
00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:03,200
Here I was.

399
00:34:03,200 --> 00:34:05,600
I was putting out a publication called The Saucerian.

400
00:34:05,600 --> 00:34:08,120
It was going all over the world.

401
00:34:08,120 --> 00:34:12,280
Maybe someone would interfere with me.

402
00:34:12,280 --> 00:34:13,280
Was it the government?

403
00:34:13,280 --> 00:34:15,040
I wondered if it was.

404
00:34:15,040 --> 00:34:21,080
Obviously something very serious must be happening for the government to be interested to such

405
00:34:21,080 --> 00:34:28,400
a point that they would obviously abridge freedoms and coming and telling someone not to talk

406
00:34:28,400 --> 00:34:30,120
about a certain subject.

407
00:34:30,120 --> 00:34:35,520
Anyway, we decided to try to get to the bottom of the thing.

408
00:34:35,520 --> 00:34:45,000
So we decided to go to Bridgeport, Connecticut, and try to see Bender personally and question

409
00:34:45,160 --> 00:34:48,680
him at great length and see if we could get anything out of him.

410
00:34:48,680 --> 00:34:52,080
Well, it's a little interview I'm going to read here in a moment.

411
00:34:52,080 --> 00:34:57,480
Discloses, we didn't learn a whole lot, although we did get some interesting responses.

412
00:34:57,480 --> 00:35:01,280
But immediately after I had received the tape, I called up Bender.

413
00:35:01,280 --> 00:35:08,560
He answered the phone, but he sounded very strange, much unlike his usual self.

414
00:35:08,560 --> 00:35:13,040
And of course I got around to the subject of flying saucers immediately.

415
00:35:13,160 --> 00:35:17,880
He said, the saucers do not interest me anymore.

416
00:35:17,880 --> 00:35:20,920
I believe that was his exact words.

417
00:35:20,920 --> 00:35:22,040
Maybe he said, don't.

418
00:35:22,040 --> 00:35:25,680
He then repeated, I've lost all interest in them.

419
00:35:25,680 --> 00:35:30,680
I wondered why a man would lose interest so quickly when he had once been so interested.

420
00:35:31,320 --> 00:35:38,680
I asked him, I said, Al, is this because the reason you are interested, is that because

421
00:35:38,680 --> 00:35:47,640
you found out that they're a government invention, maybe, or is the information you have so

422
00:35:47,640 --> 00:35:53,280
terrifying that it's rather frightening and bad for you to think about?

423
00:35:53,280 --> 00:35:55,040
And he said, well, it was a ladder.

424
00:35:55,040 --> 00:35:57,400
That's all he would say.

425
00:35:57,400 --> 00:36:04,000
We went to Bridgeport and walked in on our good friend who treated us very nicely, but

426
00:36:04,000 --> 00:36:11,280
it would keep telling us that he wasn't permitted to tell us much about what had happened.

427
00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:15,680
But anyway, we got in a lot of questions, and I'm going to read a lot of these, not

428
00:36:15,680 --> 00:36:21,880
a lot of them, but just a few of these questions and answers which took place there.

429
00:36:21,880 --> 00:36:26,560
Now the first few that I read, he'll say, I can't answer that to all of them.

430
00:36:26,560 --> 00:36:29,400
So we'll get over that quickly.

431
00:36:29,400 --> 00:36:32,080
Question, when did the three men visit you?

432
00:36:32,080 --> 00:36:33,080
Answer.

433
00:36:33,080 --> 00:36:34,960
I can't answer that.

434
00:36:34,960 --> 00:36:37,400
Question, who were the men?

435
00:36:37,400 --> 00:36:39,240
I can't answer that.

436
00:36:39,240 --> 00:36:41,280
Were they from the government?

437
00:36:41,280 --> 00:36:43,640
I can't answer that.

438
00:36:43,640 --> 00:36:46,440
Do saucer comes from space?

439
00:36:46,440 --> 00:36:48,800
I can't answer that.

440
00:36:48,800 --> 00:36:51,960
And a lot more responses, similar.

441
00:36:51,960 --> 00:36:55,360
Can you tell me where you found your source of information?

442
00:36:55,360 --> 00:36:56,360
Answer.

443
00:36:56,360 --> 00:36:59,320
I was turning a theory over and over in my mind.

444
00:36:59,320 --> 00:37:05,080
When I got some actual names and places to back it up, I submitted it to someone.

445
00:37:05,080 --> 00:37:07,520
Then the men came.

446
00:37:07,520 --> 00:37:10,640
Who was at someone you mentioned?

447
00:37:10,640 --> 00:37:13,200
I can't answer that.

448
00:37:13,200 --> 00:37:16,960
Is the flying saucer going to be a help to the world?

449
00:37:16,960 --> 00:37:20,000
It's going to be both good and bad.

450
00:37:20,000 --> 00:37:26,680
And so on answers like that, that you can't exactly put together into any meaning.

451
00:37:26,680 --> 00:37:32,160
All they serve to do is to intrigue you further and increase in your own mind the mystery

452
00:37:32,160 --> 00:37:34,080
of what he knew.

453
00:37:34,080 --> 00:37:40,960
We were desperately trying to find out what it was that Bender had run across, perhaps

454
00:37:40,960 --> 00:37:46,760
through accident, which had brought this trouble down upon him, whatever kind of trouble it

455
00:37:46,760 --> 00:37:48,040
was.

456
00:37:48,040 --> 00:37:51,960
We tried to figure who the three men were.

457
00:37:51,960 --> 00:37:54,960
Well, the first thought was the government.

458
00:37:54,960 --> 00:38:01,080
But first of all, we thought government men don't go around dressed conspicuously or trying

459
00:38:01,080 --> 00:38:08,640
to look like cloak and dagger operators, which these three men look like they had on all

460
00:38:08,640 --> 00:38:11,320
dark clothing.

461
00:38:11,320 --> 00:38:18,560
And neither do people, at least from the FBI and some of the other investigative organizations,

462
00:38:18,560 --> 00:38:21,120
neither do they go around threatening people.

463
00:38:21,120 --> 00:38:26,920
In fact, you do the talking, they just ask questions, they don't tell you anything.

464
00:38:26,920 --> 00:38:34,880
And it was a great down in our mind that government men had visited Albert Bender.

465
00:38:34,880 --> 00:38:39,960
Well, if not government men, who could it possibly be?

466
00:38:39,960 --> 00:38:41,960
Well, we thought of everything.

467
00:38:41,960 --> 00:38:44,600
Maybe it could be space fans.

468
00:38:44,600 --> 00:38:49,240
A lot of people thought that there were such things, and it certainly hadn't been proven

469
00:38:49,240 --> 00:38:52,160
that there couldn't be.

470
00:38:52,160 --> 00:39:00,560
It certainly wouldn't frighten me if someone would walk into my room and I would say to

471
00:39:00,560 --> 00:39:03,880
them, let me see your credentials.

472
00:39:03,880 --> 00:39:09,880
And this person would say, here are my credentials, and instead of showing me a card, you would

473
00:39:09,880 --> 00:39:15,920
just simply disappear, walk through a wall or something, dematerialize.

474
00:39:15,920 --> 00:39:21,680
That would certainly shake me, and if such a person would tell me to do something, I

475
00:39:21,680 --> 00:39:25,920
would think a long time before I didn't do it.

476
00:39:25,920 --> 00:39:32,000
But I'm not suggesting that it was a space man who visited Albert Bender or anyone in

477
00:39:32,000 --> 00:39:33,000
particular.

478
00:39:33,000 --> 00:39:39,040
It is a great mystery to me, and that is one reason why I wrote a book about the matter.

479
00:39:39,040 --> 00:39:45,760
I thought that if I should get all of the story and some other very interesting ones

480
00:39:45,760 --> 00:39:53,360
together, which were cropping up and published this information, that there were probably

481
00:39:53,360 --> 00:39:59,360
a lot of other people with similar experiences who would come forth and tell their own stories.

482
00:39:59,360 --> 00:40:05,840
I also thought that some people might read the book who certainly were more intelligent

483
00:40:05,840 --> 00:40:11,600
than I was who might figure out something that would bring a bell somewhere and bring

484
00:40:11,600 --> 00:40:14,280
this mystery to a conclusion.

485
00:40:14,280 --> 00:40:20,080
Just as to two questions, first of all, what did Bender know that seemed to be the answer

486
00:40:20,080 --> 00:40:21,720
to the mystery?

487
00:40:21,720 --> 00:40:25,920
And secondly, who were the three men and who were they from?

488
00:40:25,920 --> 00:40:30,520
Well, at that time, that had been the only thing that had happened.

489
00:40:30,520 --> 00:40:34,920
I believe I have a few minutes to tell you about some of the other things that occurred

490
00:40:34,920 --> 00:40:37,280
along about the same time.

491
00:40:37,280 --> 00:40:44,880
In Australia, the Australian Flying Saucer Bureau had become a very important thing.

492
00:40:44,880 --> 00:40:48,840
It was headed by Mr. E. R. Gerald.

493
00:40:48,840 --> 00:40:54,120
When I was visiting Bender as I was leaving, he held up a letter and said, you may be interested

494
00:40:54,120 --> 00:40:55,640
in reading this.

495
00:40:55,640 --> 00:40:56,640
I read it.

496
00:40:56,640 --> 00:40:57,640
It was from Gerald.

497
00:40:57,640 --> 00:41:04,480
It told about a visitor who had come to see him, a visitor who had sworn him to secrecy

498
00:41:05,280 --> 00:41:10,680
before he would tell him certain information, which he said he had.

499
00:41:10,680 --> 00:41:15,680
Gerald, who was leader of a flying saucer organization and wanted to get information

500
00:41:15,680 --> 00:41:18,160
out to the public, didn't like the idea.

501
00:41:18,160 --> 00:41:23,200
But I suppose he was so intrigued at learning whatever the man had to say that he said,

502
00:41:23,200 --> 00:41:27,480
sure, I won't tell anyone if you will tell me what you have in mind.

503
00:41:27,480 --> 00:41:32,200
Whereupon the visitor gave him certain information.

504
00:41:32,320 --> 00:41:35,000
Of course, Gerald couldn't tell that.

505
00:41:35,000 --> 00:41:37,040
I wrote to Gerald a long letter.

506
00:41:37,040 --> 00:41:38,760
I naturally couldn't go to see him.

507
00:41:38,760 --> 00:41:42,280
He was in Australia and inquired a lot of things from him.

508
00:41:42,280 --> 00:41:50,280
I asked him if what he heard from the man could make Bender sick or if it had made him ill.

509
00:41:50,280 --> 00:41:54,680
He said, no, it hadn't made him ill or frightened him too greatly.

510
00:41:54,680 --> 00:42:01,560
But someone might be able to take it in a certain way and it would be frightened by

511
00:42:01,640 --> 00:42:05,000
such information at the point of becoming ill.

512
00:42:05,000 --> 00:42:15,000
In New Zealand, there was another very reliable investigation saucer investigative organization

513
00:42:15,000 --> 00:42:21,880
called the Civilian Saucer Investigation of New Zealand headed by Mr. Fulton.

514
00:42:21,880 --> 00:42:28,760
After the matter of Bender had gone along for some time, I found out some very interesting

515
00:42:28,840 --> 00:42:34,520
things from New Zealand which I thought might help solve the mystery in Bridgeport, Connecticut.

516
00:42:35,320 --> 00:42:43,560
Gerald and Fulton, according to the latter, were engaged on a rather strange project it

517
00:42:43,560 --> 00:42:50,440
sounded like because it was named Project X. I heard a mention of it some way through the

518
00:42:50,440 --> 00:42:54,360
grapevine and I wrote to Fulton who had become a good friend of mine and I said,

519
00:42:54,360 --> 00:42:57,640
just what does this Project X involve?

520
00:42:58,360 --> 00:43:07,800
He wrote back and he said that this was a project suggested by Bender shortly before he had been

521
00:43:08,680 --> 00:43:14,920
shut up. He said that Bender, having been interested in the number of saucer sightings

522
00:43:14,920 --> 00:43:21,640
occurring in the down under countries such as Australia and New Zealand, had entertained the

523
00:43:21,640 --> 00:43:29,240
idea that there might be a base around there or in the Antarctic. The Bender had suggested

524
00:43:29,960 --> 00:43:36,520
that they make a chart taking all of their sightings which they had in their files which showed

525
00:43:37,560 --> 00:43:45,400
directions of arrival and departure and putting these on a chart or on a map. If they drew lines

526
00:43:45,960 --> 00:43:53,640
the way the saucers were arriving and leaving and that these lines tended to intersect it might show

527
00:43:53,640 --> 00:43:59,960
a rendezvous point or maybe even a base if there was such a thing for the saucers.

528
00:44:00,760 --> 00:44:08,360
At that time I could see that there are suspicions worked toward a base in Antarctica

529
00:44:08,360 --> 00:44:14,520
but Bender shut up immediately after that and the whole thing was dropped. They didn't get into

530
00:44:14,600 --> 00:44:20,760
the project in New Zealand and Australia. That has always been a question mark in my mind if

531
00:44:20,760 --> 00:44:28,760
that might have been the thing which had run the bell in Bender's mind. If he had found out some proof

532
00:44:28,760 --> 00:44:36,440
that there was a base for flying saucers on the earth that certainly might cause him some trouble

533
00:44:36,440 --> 00:44:44,280
if there was someone who didn't want him to tell about it. Anyway I began to hear other

534
00:44:44,280 --> 00:44:54,200
reports in Canada and incidentally in my book I don't name this country. A man named Smallwood

535
00:44:54,200 --> 00:45:03,720
had a rather shaking experience. The man in Canada whom I called Smallwood is a man called

536
00:45:03,720 --> 00:45:11,080
Layman Mitris. I don't in the book I didn't want to mention the fact but since then it has appeared in

537
00:45:11,080 --> 00:45:19,480
a saucer publication and I suppose it's public written by a fellow who went there and pried

538
00:45:19,480 --> 00:45:31,640
this information out of Smallwood independently. Anyway Mitris was an investigator in Canada who

539
00:45:31,640 --> 00:45:40,360
had often sent me information to publish in my little magazine. One day he got wind of a fellow

540
00:45:40,440 --> 00:45:48,120
up north of him who had been fishing during vacation and had seen a cigar shaped object

541
00:45:48,680 --> 00:45:55,240
go over and vanish and heard a noise in the bushes. When he went over to the shore to see what had

542
00:45:55,240 --> 00:46:01,960
happened in the bushes he saw some material some sort of metallic residue lying on the ground.

543
00:46:02,520 --> 00:46:09,880
He picked it up he said expecting it to be hot having fallen out or something but to his surprise

544
00:46:09,880 --> 00:46:18,040
it was strangely cool or cold he said like feeling inside of a refrigerator. My friend Mitris

545
00:46:18,040 --> 00:46:25,240
wanted to get this story from him to send down the made a publish in my saucer. So he got hold of

546
00:46:25,240 --> 00:46:31,320
this fellow and begged him for the information also for a sample of the material. The fellow was

547
00:46:32,040 --> 00:46:37,960
apparently frightened. He thought that this was a government device which he had seen

548
00:46:37,960 --> 00:46:45,960
and that he would be in trouble if he made it known. But my friend Mitris was a persuasive kind

549
00:46:45,960 --> 00:46:53,320
of fellow and finally talked the man whose name I don't know into giving him a sample of the stuff.

550
00:46:54,520 --> 00:47:01,800
Immediately Mitris sent me a report on the whole affair and he also sent a sample to a

551
00:47:01,800 --> 00:47:09,080
laboratory in a nearby city. Well as soon as he had received the analysis back I got a very strange

552
00:47:09,080 --> 00:47:15,080
letter from him. He said that it was something that had happened that he didn't care to talk about

553
00:47:15,080 --> 00:47:21,640
that he couldn't talk about the analysis and so forth. So I called him up on the phone and got

554
00:47:21,640 --> 00:47:28,360
in touch with him by mail and I finally pried some information out of him as to what had happened

555
00:47:28,360 --> 00:47:35,240
and this is what had happened very briefly. Having received the analysis back from the lab on the

556
00:47:35,240 --> 00:47:44,040
sample he received a visitor whom he assumed to be from the government. I don't think he asked

557
00:47:44,040 --> 00:47:50,520
him at that time. Perhaps he was a little flustered and the fellow told him to give him the sample

558
00:47:50,600 --> 00:48:00,120
of the material and Mitris handed it over to him. He seemed to be rather frightened of this fellow

559
00:48:00,120 --> 00:48:05,320
who asked him for this. And then I don't have the whole story but I understand that the person

560
00:48:05,320 --> 00:48:12,760
arrived again at his house and paid him a second visit. At that time Mitris had collected his wits

561
00:48:12,760 --> 00:48:20,040
and he said to the fellow show me your credentials. First I believe he said where are you from and

562
00:48:20,040 --> 00:48:28,520
the fellow said of all things the Mounted Police, one of the big agencies in Canada for law enforcement

563
00:48:28,520 --> 00:48:35,720
and Mitris said let me see your card that shows that you are a member of them and at that point

564
00:48:36,280 --> 00:48:44,920
the man's almost friendly tone before drastically changed. He became menacing and threatening

565
00:48:45,480 --> 00:48:52,840
and made some threats which for some reason Mitris was afraid to repeat to me. He said he would

566
00:48:52,840 --> 00:49:00,120
rather not mention. He intimated that the safety of his family was involved if he talked about this

567
00:49:00,120 --> 00:49:06,760
and he was so frightened that he didn't want anything published about it. Well when I got

568
00:49:06,760 --> 00:49:14,040
ready to write my book I thought it over and I thought this truth should be printed and if I

569
00:49:14,040 --> 00:49:21,160
disguised it by not telling the country where the man was living nor his name that it surely

570
00:49:21,160 --> 00:49:29,400
wouldn't cause him any trouble so I printed it without asking him I'm afraid for that permission

571
00:49:29,400 --> 00:49:36,520
because if I had maybe he'd have said no I wouldn't be in the book but anyway it's there and immediately

572
00:49:36,520 --> 00:49:43,320
afterward the man was quite disturbed and frightened at the mere mention of it. He said

573
00:49:44,360 --> 00:49:52,440
and I get this from another publication that immediately after the book came out in Canada

574
00:49:53,240 --> 00:50:00,360
about a day afterward the man who had found the residue mysteriously packed up and left

575
00:50:00,360 --> 00:50:09,080
bagging baggages if he were afraid to stay around there any longer and Mitris was quite disturbed

576
00:50:09,640 --> 00:50:16,120
about it however I think that he has forgiven me and he has promised to write some additional

577
00:50:16,120 --> 00:50:25,720
material as long as it doesn't involve the subject of the material and the the special report on

578
00:50:25,720 --> 00:50:33,320
the analysis and I've always wondered just who these people were who came to see certain researchers

579
00:50:34,280 --> 00:50:42,280
maybe some of them had been dreamed up but surely not all of them I wondered what fantastic agency

580
00:50:42,280 --> 00:50:48,600
could be sponsoring them they certainly didn't seem to be government man who came and frightened

581
00:50:48,600 --> 00:50:56,120
these people I wondered if one of them came to see me if I would be frightened well I thought surely

582
00:50:56,120 --> 00:51:03,960
no I won't be shut up by anyone but one never knows since that time of publishing a book

583
00:51:05,160 --> 00:51:12,360
I had hoped that I would run across several other experiences of quite spectacular nature which I

584
00:51:12,360 --> 00:51:18,520
would be able to report to you but honestly nothing that important has come to my attention

585
00:51:18,520 --> 00:51:24,200
after the book has been written if other people have been in silence they're too scared to talk

586
00:51:24,200 --> 00:51:33,480
about it and or maybe the three men or whoever they are has decided to change your tactics here

587
00:51:33,480 --> 00:51:40,200
is an interesting letter however from France I think some of you know of the speller he is a

588
00:51:40,200 --> 00:51:49,560
leading flying saucer enthusiast in France a writer who has got out of book this is confidential and

589
00:51:49,560 --> 00:51:56,440
I'll just let you guess who his name is but I'm sure you can now this man although he is a writer

590
00:51:56,440 --> 00:52:01,800
doesn't write very good English so I will try to stumble through this letter this is dated April

591
00:52:01,800 --> 00:52:11,640
five 1956 dear gray your letter March 17 etc believe me or not gray but we have now in France a case

592
00:52:11,640 --> 00:52:19,240
of benderism an engineer and I are proceeding our investigations on this strange affair but it

593
00:52:19,320 --> 00:52:27,640
varied is very difficult because the man who received their visit four men had vanished we know

594
00:52:27,640 --> 00:52:34,760
he is hidden in southern France this guide knew too much about flying saucers he puts quotes around

595
00:52:34,760 --> 00:52:41,480
it because that's the name of my book we do not think the four men are French agents of government

596
00:52:41,480 --> 00:52:49,880
nor agents of another nation we do not know where they do come from the man who was involved has

597
00:52:49,880 --> 00:52:57,000
received some kind of optic instrument now listen to this some kind of optic he means optical

598
00:52:57,000 --> 00:53:04,600
instrument from a pilot and then he has in parentheses a woman pilot of fs flying saucer

599
00:53:05,240 --> 00:53:11,880
my friend the engineer saw this instrument he has saw underlined he has manipulated it and was

600
00:53:11,880 --> 00:53:20,280
stupefied to find that the metal of this instrument at its ends was transformed into glass or a lens

601
00:53:20,280 --> 00:53:26,280
in other words the atomic structure of the metal was changed into the atomic structure of glass

602
00:53:27,400 --> 00:53:33,400
for the moment this information is confidential I ask you not to mention it in your publication

603
00:53:34,120 --> 00:53:39,560
so that leaves me open to tell you about I think it is in my publication if I know more about these

604
00:53:39,560 --> 00:53:45,080
affairs I shall tell you since that time I've been trying to get in touch with this man but I

605
00:53:45,080 --> 00:53:50,680
haven't received any more letters I suppose if he is actively engaged in in flying saucer

606
00:53:51,960 --> 00:53:58,760
work that maybe he's just too busy to answer but he seems to be very much intrigued this is the

607
00:53:59,480 --> 00:54:09,800
author of a very highly respectable french book about flying saucers which is now been translated

608
00:54:09,800 --> 00:54:17,240
and has been published in England so there you have it a number of strange cases which I am unable

609
00:54:17,240 --> 00:54:25,080
to explain if I were I certainly don't believe I would have bothered to have written a book

610
00:54:25,720 --> 00:54:31,880
but as yet I don't have all the answers I would like to be able to stand up here and

611
00:54:32,520 --> 00:54:36,840
give you all the answers to the flying saucer riddle because I think you're interested in

612
00:54:37,560 --> 00:54:49,000
knowing them but I certainly would be foolish if I did that because really I know very little more

613
00:54:49,640 --> 00:54:55,880
probably than the rest of you however I have had an opportunity in this particular thing to know

614
00:54:55,880 --> 00:55:02,040
something about Bender and the other people who have been shut up and that's what I wanted to

615
00:55:02,040 --> 00:55:11,720
tell people about in the book and you about here but let me say in closing here because my time is up

616
00:55:12,680 --> 00:55:23,400
that I think regardless of whether flying saucers turn out to be from Mars from Venus or Saturn or

617
00:55:23,400 --> 00:55:31,960
maybe as our friend Moseley says from the earth itself I think that other things have been more

618
00:55:31,960 --> 00:55:38,760
important even if we find out that there isn't any such things as flying saucers I think that

619
00:55:39,400 --> 00:55:44,360
all our work will have accomplished something because all of us have certainly made a lot of

620
00:55:44,360 --> 00:55:50,040
good friends while trying to find out about this and that certainly I think would be worth all our

621
00:55:50,040 --> 00:56:07,000
trouble thank you very much you're asking if I formed any opinions as to what the saucers are

622
00:56:07,560 --> 00:56:15,080
and where they come from well I haven't formed any definite opinion I think you would be a little

623
00:56:15,080 --> 00:56:25,480
foolish to do so because that would be admitting that I knew everything I favor the idea that flying

624
00:56:25,560 --> 00:56:34,920
saucers come from space from some other planet in our solar system or in some other system

625
00:56:35,800 --> 00:56:44,840
however sometimes I also feel that the explanation might be a little more complicated than that

626
00:56:45,560 --> 00:56:53,880
that I can even entertain the thought that some of this phenomena might even involve something as

627
00:56:53,880 --> 00:56:59,720
complicated as another dimension but I'm not prepared to go into a thing like it because I know

628
00:56:59,720 --> 00:57:05,320
a little about it it's just a thought but in repeating I believe the saucers are the most

629
00:57:05,320 --> 00:57:12,920
simple explanation I know of are from space some other planets and that still it might be along

630
00:57:12,920 --> 00:57:21,240
those lines but a bit more complicated in the regards to brush creek incident I did not personally

631
00:57:21,240 --> 00:57:30,280
investigate it however a fellow who did some research on the west coast and Mr. Paul Spade

632
00:57:30,280 --> 00:57:36,760
whom I had a great deal of confidence in did investigate the matter he went there and camped

633
00:57:36,760 --> 00:57:44,280
with the miners who were involved in this incident and I'm convinced that what he told us was the

634
00:57:44,280 --> 00:57:49,080
truth in that matter there's just a moment I'll mention something about the brush creek monster

635
00:57:49,080 --> 00:57:57,640
not a monster but it was a little man two miners working titanium digging said they saw a saucer land

636
00:57:57,640 --> 00:58:05,160
and a little man get a bucket of water from a creek and climb up into the saucer and fly away

637
00:58:05,160 --> 00:58:11,160
do I find evidence that the saucer sightings are increasing despite the storm censorship

638
00:58:11,960 --> 00:58:18,120
well first of all it's a little hard to absolutely prove a formal censorship but

639
00:58:18,680 --> 00:58:26,280
at least now saucer sightings and incidents are on the increase that seems to happen

640
00:58:26,280 --> 00:58:32,520
simultaneously with the approach of mars as you know in september we had the most favorable

641
00:58:32,520 --> 00:58:39,720
opposition in mars in several years and I believe that it is established there is a definite connection

642
00:58:39,800 --> 00:58:48,440
between the opposition of mars and the saucer sightings and we had that in 54 and in 52

643
00:58:49,080 --> 00:58:55,240
I've often thought that it might be because that people are out observing mars looking up at mars

644
00:58:55,240 --> 00:59:02,360
because it's close and therefore see more things that are going on the sky but as Mr. Michelle

645
00:59:03,160 --> 00:59:10,600
writes in my latest bulletin there it does seem to be a cycle and I really expect the

646
00:59:10,600 --> 00:59:19,160
heaviest concentration of sightings to occur around october because it seems as if the heaviest point

647
00:59:19,160 --> 00:59:28,280
of sightings doesn't come right at the opposition of mars but about a month after it and I agree

648
00:59:28,280 --> 00:59:34,440
with Mr. Michelle and that article he did for my bulletin that respect I have been receiving

649
00:59:34,440 --> 00:59:41,960
more reports through the mail and over the phone and so on that's some indication of how many have

650
00:59:41,960 --> 00:59:49,400
been saying I called up land string field and just met it the other night and he says that the

651
00:59:49,400 --> 00:59:58,040
sightings are coming into him at a much greater rate of speed they tend to have peaks and

652
00:59:58,040 --> 01:00:05,400
low points it may be that that after this this opposition of mars they may fall off again

653
01:00:07,000 --> 01:00:12,280
can I reveal any significant changes in air force speaking in the past year

654
01:00:13,800 --> 01:00:23,720
no I believe such a change would be difficult to see the air force is still on the same party line

655
01:00:24,360 --> 01:00:32,120
that the most of the sightings could be explained logically however they will not go out on a limb

656
01:00:32,120 --> 01:00:38,840
and say that the saucers are not from space they never said that they leave themselves a loophole

657
01:00:38,840 --> 01:00:45,800
to get around they say that they try to hint that they aren't and make us believe they aren't but

658
01:00:45,800 --> 01:00:51,720
they don't definitely say that they aren't and I think that the stand on saucers with the air force

659
01:00:51,720 --> 01:00:59,480
has been about the same over the years you're asking if the only people who were visited

660
01:00:59,480 --> 01:01:11,240
were those who obtained fragments from UFOs that is not entirely right Mr. Bender had a fragment

661
01:01:11,240 --> 01:01:18,120
of a star ball which went to a sandboy in Connecticut before matter occurred to him however he

662
01:01:18,120 --> 01:01:26,280
told us that had nothing to do with his troubles there have been some other cases where no fragments

663
01:01:26,280 --> 01:01:33,400
seem to have been involved but it seems in my mind to to be either one of two things they have

664
01:01:33,400 --> 01:01:40,760
some kind of definite evidence as they have a fragment of a UFO or they have some other kind

665
01:01:40,760 --> 01:01:47,480
of evidence any any definite evidence which surely cracked this thing open whether that's a fragment

666
01:01:47,480 --> 01:01:55,000
or some other kind of proof do you think george gammage is better than the same you know that's

667
01:01:55,000 --> 01:02:01,400
really difficult question to answer first of all it's not very ethical for one author to comment

668
01:02:01,400 --> 01:02:06,920
on the work of another frankly I don't want to believe in and maybe that's a very narrow mind

669
01:02:06,920 --> 01:02:14,680
that's a penny and I've took but over the years since he's ready his first book I've I've begun

670
01:02:14,680 --> 01:02:22,360
to think that there probably is some truth in his books I certainly like the first book better than

671
01:02:22,360 --> 01:02:29,400
I do the second one and I have come to this point I'm still a little confused as to what to believe

672
01:02:29,400 --> 01:02:36,520
but I believe that george densky does have some very important knowledge he has had some experiences

673
01:02:36,520 --> 01:02:43,720
now whether in the matter of writing a book that the public could understand he may have taken some

674
01:02:43,720 --> 01:02:51,640
editorial license I don't know but densky is certainly not a man to discount at this time I

675
01:02:51,640 --> 01:02:59,560
don't think did I think that bender will ever reveal his experiences I don't know however he did tell me

676
01:03:00,360 --> 01:03:07,720
that when and if he could reveal the information that I would be the first to know I don't know

677
01:03:07,720 --> 01:03:13,480
what his position is on it now he did not want me to write a book about it and I caught him up

678
01:03:13,480 --> 01:03:19,480
the floor read it and he said don't write it but I went ahead anyway and did it so I don't know he

679
01:03:19,480 --> 01:03:24,600
said another thing that's most interesting he we asked him at the when the government would tell

680
01:03:24,600 --> 01:03:30,440
the people about saucers he said if not within the next five months I believe four months within

681
01:03:30,440 --> 01:03:36,760
the next five years well they certainly didn't within the next four months about five years would take

682
01:03:36,760 --> 01:03:45,080
us to 57 and 1957 is the international geophysical years you know when we will have a sensitive

683
01:03:45,080 --> 01:03:52,680
satellite out when people would be greatly cautious of space travel perhaps bender knew about that being

684
01:03:52,680 --> 01:03:59,080
involved in some rocket societies and that that was the reason he said in about five years maybe

685
01:03:59,080 --> 01:04:07,880
he felt that 1957 would be a good time for the government to tell the people about anyway 1957

686
01:04:07,880 --> 01:04:14,840
promises to be a most interesting year for us how do I think the martial monster compares with the

687
01:04:14,840 --> 01:04:21,320
fight with monster and why do I think of it I tend to believe that it did happen based upon the

688
01:04:21,320 --> 01:04:26,600
people I have talked to who have investigated it I have not had an opportunity to go there and talk

689
01:04:26,680 --> 01:04:34,600
to the people myself there were some very similar things about if you'll walk get my briefcases

690
01:04:34,600 --> 01:04:39,000
down there but maybe I can remember this a little one the little one I have a newspaper account

691
01:04:39,000 --> 01:04:45,320
someone might have stored that down maybe I can just read you something on that which which I thought

692
01:04:45,320 --> 01:04:51,640
was interesting because it did sound similar looking at that this morning in fact I was trying to get

693
01:04:51,640 --> 01:04:57,400
a hold of Sid Cater who wrote this story for the paper but I found out that he is not with the paper

694
01:04:57,400 --> 01:05:06,760
now this is interesting there was an odor about the monster at Marshall the boys described it

695
01:05:07,800 --> 01:05:13,560
in various ways and this newspaper story they said it was like gasoline and they described it

696
01:05:13,560 --> 01:05:19,400
to somebody else to another person but the way it turns out is that they did smell some odor which

697
01:05:19,400 --> 01:05:25,800
is a little hard to explain another thing is the strangeness of its walk one of the boys was asked

698
01:05:25,800 --> 01:05:32,440
to describe the monster's walk quote it took big long strides Herman said and what did the car what

699
01:05:32,440 --> 01:05:37,640
did the monster do when the car lights hit it it took the strides faster he reported asked to

700
01:05:37,640 --> 01:05:43,240
demonstrate how it walked he took a step and stopped turned around and smiled and said he couldn't

701
01:05:43,240 --> 01:05:49,320
he couldn't because quote it didn't walk like a man that is it didn't bounce as a man has

702
01:05:49,320 --> 01:05:55,560
a tendency to do when he is running it sort of glided now listen to that it's sort of glided

703
01:05:56,200 --> 01:06:02,520
and uh this newspaper story is comparing this I sent up the seller who wrote the story a copy of

704
01:06:02,520 --> 01:06:09,640
the book he wrote a previous story to this and he's taking this book and he quote in my interview

705
01:06:09,640 --> 01:06:15,640
with a one of the boys who saw the black woods monster I asked him to walk around the room now

706
01:06:15,640 --> 01:06:20,200
this is a blame questioning about the black woods monster and where he is being interviewed and

707
01:06:20,200 --> 01:06:25,400
to imitate the movement of the saying that was impossible he said I couldn't move this it did

708
01:06:26,040 --> 01:06:32,920
it just moved it didn't walk it just moved evenly it didn't jump now here are two people trying to

709
01:06:32,920 --> 01:06:38,360
describe some sort of walk that they've never seen before and they end up sort of saying that it's

710
01:06:38,360 --> 01:06:45,080
kind of glided or aflated so there is a similarity I don't have been to that address with me it's a

711
01:06:46,440 --> 01:06:52,120
I shouldn't like to give it out for this reason that that says this thing has happened some people

712
01:06:52,120 --> 01:06:57,160
have got to him and he says I have annoyed him considerably because he just doesn't want to

713
01:06:57,160 --> 01:07:03,560
talk about it and I wouldn't want to be the person who who gave out the address and if I did and he

714
01:07:03,560 --> 01:07:09,560
went to see him he wouldn't he wouldn't talk to you about it because that's been been tried but

715
01:07:10,520 --> 01:07:16,840
he does live in richport, Connecticut and he's going about a very normal existence about two

716
01:07:16,840 --> 01:07:23,240
years after all of these incidents occurred he was married occasionally I have heard from him

717
01:07:23,240 --> 01:07:31,480
however he doesn't discuss saucers he is an executive of some sort not a really big executive but

718
01:07:31,480 --> 01:07:39,160
who is some executive position in the Acme shear plant in richport they make scissors ordinary

719
01:07:39,160 --> 01:07:46,200
scissors as I said he's going about his life just as you and I did before we took up saucers normally

720
01:07:46,920 --> 01:07:52,680
he just doesn't want to have anything more to do with him so you want the Mori Island incident is

721
01:07:53,480 --> 01:07:58,600
yes that really comes from one of the first books and a very interesting one called the

722
01:07:58,600 --> 01:08:04,600
Coming of the saucer is written by Kenneth Arnold and published by Ray Palmer on in Mori

723
01:08:04,600 --> 01:08:13,880
island and at the come of washington some donuts shaped objects were cited by two harbor patrolmen

724
01:08:14,680 --> 01:08:21,480
these discs or donut shaped objects seem to be in trouble they expelled some sort of residue

725
01:08:21,480 --> 01:08:27,560
from them which was a kind of slag which fell all around them and I understand killed a dog and

726
01:08:27,640 --> 01:08:35,240
injured one of the kids that was with him after that Air Force investigators came in and took some

727
01:08:35,240 --> 01:08:43,320
of this material and in their plane and the plane did crash under rather mysterious circumstances

728
01:08:43,320 --> 01:08:50,280
that they were taking off however I understand that there was other residue which was preserved

729
01:08:50,520 --> 01:08:57,320
some people still have the project saucer the old Air Force agency for investigating

730
01:08:57,320 --> 01:09:05,640
saucers the idea considerably as they said they had exposed the Mori island thing as a hope

731
01:09:06,680 --> 01:09:14,040
and these were only slag these fragments in the repel book he says that it was a hoax

732
01:09:14,840 --> 01:09:18,920
I have reported something about that in my book incidentally I think it was very interesting

733
01:09:18,920 --> 01:09:24,680
and I certainly am not saying that it was a hoax until I have some definite proof that it was

734
01:09:25,240 --> 01:09:33,800
what can be said and known about the fireballs you're probably most of you thinking about the

735
01:09:33,800 --> 01:09:41,640
green fireballs of the southwest which dr. LaPère I believe has investigated that is one of the most

736
01:09:41,640 --> 01:09:50,680
puzzling cases of us on record the things are seen traveling at great rates of speed

737
01:09:50,680 --> 01:09:57,960
and then exploding with a tremendous splash however no noise is heard if those were real

738
01:09:57,960 --> 01:10:04,760
meteors so says dr. LaPère you certainly would hear them because it would sound as loud as a

739
01:10:04,760 --> 01:10:12,600
freight train and neither as I understand have any fragments doesn't been found but I would assume

740
01:10:12,600 --> 01:10:19,560
that those projects are highly classified and that if something were found that it would be secret

741
01:10:19,560 --> 01:10:27,720
do I feel flying saucers are lurking in our outer space but that do you mean possibly an error

742
01:10:27,720 --> 01:10:35,480
just above our atmosphere around their ears yes I certainly think they must be around somewhere

743
01:10:35,480 --> 01:10:42,360
pretty close and keep around close so we see so many of them some of the astronomers were looking

744
01:10:42,920 --> 01:10:50,840
recently for satellites which some people headed were artificial which was circling the earth

745
01:10:52,040 --> 01:10:56,680
they tried to pass these off as little moons which they may or may not have been

746
01:10:58,120 --> 01:11:04,280
if flying saucers are coming here from another planet and if they are somewhat limited in

747
01:11:05,160 --> 01:11:11,800
speed range and so forth it would make it logical that they would have installed around the earth

748
01:11:13,080 --> 01:11:21,400
rather large space stations or perhaps the mother ships that we hear about to service these machines

749
01:11:22,040 --> 01:11:28,360
now that is very interesting to think about and we do have some proof that there's something

750
01:11:29,080 --> 01:11:34,520
out there orbiting the earth because the astronomers have been looking for them

751
01:11:35,080 --> 01:11:41,480
getting to the shaver mystery which it causes so much controversy that perhaps one shouldn't

752
01:11:41,480 --> 01:11:49,000
talk about it in my book I'm certainly not saying that I accepted 100 percent I'm just

753
01:11:49,000 --> 01:11:53,240
reporting it because it is interesting and it seemed to fit in with some of the things

754
01:11:53,240 --> 01:12:00,200
we were doing at the time of the bender mystery now as far as what the deraille's look like shaver

755
01:12:00,200 --> 01:12:08,840
explained that they look something like people but but very degenerate looking people something

756
01:12:09,960 --> 01:12:16,920
maybe like the witches are pictured as looking maybe a bit haggard and dried up looking very

757
01:12:17,000 --> 01:12:24,840
evil looking and that sort of thing you're asking these monsters which we have talked about could

758
01:12:24,840 --> 01:12:33,320
they be robots sat down here by the saucer people to investigate things such as fault lines or

759
01:12:34,280 --> 01:12:39,960
trying to help us in some way in other words coming into perilous territory where the actual

760
01:12:39,960 --> 01:12:47,480
people in this would not like to come but instead they make them some robot or a man like a robot

761
01:12:47,480 --> 01:12:56,760
down here to to find out now I think that's logical the flatwoods monster that's out there in the

762
01:12:56,760 --> 01:13:03,320
book does sound something like a robot it looks like our conception of one at least to some degree

763
01:13:04,200 --> 01:13:11,000
and or it there's some of those monsters which is so terrifying to us simply could be maybe some

764
01:13:11,000 --> 01:13:18,920
ordinary looking creature in a space suit which might look pretty spooky to us it's pretty logical

765
01:13:19,800 --> 01:13:28,280
that they might send down a mechanical contrivance of some kind to get around like a man and collect

766
01:13:28,280 --> 01:13:34,760
some of this information which they surely would be able to do and send back by radio to a ship

767
01:13:35,640 --> 01:13:40,200
I believe that all the time we have thank you very much I wish I could answer more

768
01:13:47,000 --> 01:13:51,800
thank you mr. gray barter and thank you all folks for coming here tonight and uh

769
01:13:52,600 --> 01:13:58,120
participating in this wonderful event thank you again we hope to see you again sometime

770
01:13:58,280 --> 01:13:59,740
you